Gays In The Military: That People Don't Ask and Don't Tell, We Should Talk About It

WillStarr Level 8 Commenter 5 months ago

"People do not choose to be gay; God chose for them!"

God said the exact opposite, not just once, but twice, so I don't know how you can make that claim.

Voted up and interesting.

WillStarr Level 8 Commenter 5 months ago

"...God did create people who are Gay."

There's no evidence that anyone was born homosexual, or that it's genetic. I suspect it's a learned behavior.

WillStarr Level 8 Commenter 5 months ago

The claim that it was genetic has since been disproved. There is no homosexual gene.

While there are animal behaviorists who claim homosexual behavior in animals, there are also those who say it's just a form of dominance. Dominate dogs will mount other dogs, but then breed normally.

Again, I think it's a learned behavior. I'll leave it at that.

Vinaya Ghimire Level 8 Commenter 5 months ago

We do not choose the way we are born. Thanks for addressing this issue.

livelonger Level 6 Commenter 5 months ago

Great Hub about an important issue. No one is saying gay soldiers are subject to different rules than their straight colleagues. If you do the job well and abide by the same rules, then you should be allowed to serve. This seems to be the sentiment of the majority of the armed forces, too.

WillStarr: I disagree that G-d said homosexuality is wrong. That's usually the (convenient) conclusion drawn from a misreading/mistranslation of the Bible. I wrote a Hub on it recently, as a matter of fact. I agree with frugalfamily that people decide that something is wrong; G-d would not create a type of people (even if we don't yet understand how that's done) only to condemn them.

WillStarr Level 8 Commenter 5 months ago

"WillStarr: I disagree that G-d said homosexuality is wrong. That's usually the (convenient) conclusion drawn from a misreading/mistranslation of the Bible."

I've been hearing that lately, but last time I looked, it still said it was an abomination to God, so if you don't mind, I'll take His word over yours.

BTW, God created all of us, including the most heinous murderers in history. We are all born innocent, but we all have been granted free will, so we all choose our own path.

Daniella Lopez Level 5 Commenter 5 months ago

This is a great hub, JS. It's nice to see that not too many people have been bashing you over this hub. Voted up and awesome!

barryrutherford Level 5 Commenter 5 months ago

Unlike police officers or firemen the military spend 24.7 with each other. Soldiers just like the rest of us have social norms and biases. for so long for instance homosexual acts were considered illegal. Here in Australia up until the mid 1990's homosexual acts were illegal in some states. Even though in reality the act was rarely enforced and police took a blind eye to the activity. Now when it comes to the military there are going to be varying level of tolerances to homosexual acts. Will it compromise the harmony or working professionalism of a military. This is the question the military brass has to deal with. I am not saying the behaviour is right or wrong or somewhere in between i am just saying that is the way it was. Some opinions on the topic are hard to change.

Seek-n-Find Level 5 Commenter 5 months ago

All people are created in the image of God. Sin has marred that image in all--and it is God who rescues from sin and restores people to who He made them to be. I like a saying I once heard, "God loves you just the way you are, but loves you too much to leave you that way." Whatever the sin, God offers freedom through Jesus. We are to love people, not judge their behaviors. Yet at the same time, the balance is to not call "good" what God has called "bad" or call "bad" what God has called "good." The Bible read as a whole (not taken out of context) and read with an understanding of the cultural context, with some help in understanding the original language meanings and with assistance from the Holy Spirit--makes what needs to be clear, clear, and what is okay to remain "gray" remains gray.

Oh, and I also appreciate the fact that people are disagreeing agreeably!

Angie Jardine Level 7 Commenter 5 months ago

Well done, JS for writing such a bold hub. It was overdue and very brave and I agree with your sentiments.

I always find it amazing that 'straight' people are so incredibly arrogant that they automatically assume that a gay person is going to make a move on them, even if they look like the back end of a bus! It would be laughable if it was not so pathetic.

It seems a lot of people are on mighty close terms with God and know his thoughts despite reading them in a Bible that has had a lot of filtering through the minds of many men with many personal agendas. Jesus Christ on the other hand had no such condemnatory words for his fellow man or woman ... except perhaps for money lenders working in temples.

amymarie_5 Level 6 Commenter 5 months ago

I'm so surprised at some of the negative comments. Will someone please explain to me how a person learns to be gay when raised by heterosexuals? Why would someone choose to be gay when so many gays are discriminated against and bullied? If it were as easy as choosing, I don't think manywould choose such a difficult life.

My friend's son was born gay and he has known since he was able to speak. My friend and her husband are both strict Catholics. My cousin was also gay, his parents are Pentecostal and believe being gay is a sin. He grew up with this religion so how could he have possibly learned to be gay?

I am also ashamed that republicans can be so disrespectful to soldiers, veterans and those who have died for this country and had to hide that they were gay.

Sorry for the rant, I'm a bit passionate about this subject. This is an important topic and a well written hub.

Voted up, beautiful, useful and interesting.

Sueswan Level 8 Commenter 5 months ago

Hi JS

I agree that a person's sexual orientation has nothing to do with their job peformance.

I don't believe that someone chooses to be gay.

I am straight. I once had a gay male ask me if I have ever been with a woman. I said no. He said, why don't you try it? You might like it. I said, "I am not wired that way."

I pray for the day when neither straight or gay will have to go to war.

Voted up and awesome.

I wish you all the best for a Happy New Year.

Sharyn's Slant Level 7 Commenter 4 months ago

"Gay people generally are not in the habit of trying to get straight people to "change teams". Gay people want the same thing as straight people."

AMEN

Great hub that I agree with totally. Too bad the subject has to breed hatred and negativity.

Personally, I was born gay. It isn't something I sought out and/or learned. It is how I am "wired" as Sueswan said. Just to look at me, you wouldn't know my sexual preferences. Does it really matter? I am a normal person who wants the same things in life as most others do. And it has NEVER affected my job. If I could change the way I feel, I would have. Thirty years ago, I didn't want to be ridiculed and closeted and questioned, etc. Back then, if I could honestly live as a straight woman, I would have made that choice. It isn't possible. It is who I am. Is it how I was CREATED.

I may lose a few followers after this comment since only those close to me on HP really know me, but oh well, maybe that is a good thing :)

Thanks JS for a great hub I hope gets many readers.

Sharyn

Moms-Secret Level 6 Commenter 4 months ago

I have to agree. I would be more inclined to believe that homosexuality was a learned behavior if it did not exist in any other species, but that is not the case. Their are plenty of species out there that go to the nearest neighbor when the urge comes if a female is not available. I see it in dogs all the time. I have seen in it apes and other critters on the nature shows. That it is dominance or not is an opinion that can not be proven. It may be (like men in prison) it may not be.

What God wants or says is between that person and God. A friend of mine has been struggling with this his entire life and desperately wanted to change and please God to the extent of hating himself (which God also does not want). I do believe that the bible teaches that we are to accept and love, so it is not our place or right to judge or to force a change.

Gays in the military is not something that is new. I was in the Navy a long time ago. Gays were under the 'don't ask, don't tell' rule. The news is not that they are there. It is only that they are being acknowledged.

Sunnie Day Level 8 Commenter 4 months ago

My son is serving in the military and serves in a supervisory position. We talked about this issue at length during Christmas. He does not care what the sexual orientation is as long as that soldier does their job. Saying that, there are other issues, he says that comes into play. With allowing gays to serve in the military then they should have all same rights as other soldiers meaning housing, medical for their families etc... HOWEVER, they do not at this time. Most solders marry and receive extra benefits like allowances for living off post, extra pay for their dependents. So how does the military work this out amongst the gay soldiers? There is more to just serving as there are benefits that go with being a married couple. If you have two gay soldiers in a serious relationship and married as in some states, it is legal, how do they come up with fair policies and how they receive the same benefits as a straight married couple? It would seem the laws would have to change. Anyway thought I would throw that one out. I am curious to know if any one has any insight on this part of the issue. Has the government come up with a plan for the gay people that serve in the military?

http://www.military.com/news/article/military-gay-

Pamela Kinnaird W Level 6 Commenter 4 months ago

What a big discussion you have going here. Good hub. I agree with barryrutherford up above who said the issue is whether "the harmony or working professionalism" of a military unit will be compromised if a gay person or gay persons are in it. That's what I've always thought the issue was and so when I've read a headline or an article on the subject of gays in the military, I've wondered how or why the gay person puts him or herself into such a dangerous situation. It certainly shows a certain amount of patriotism and also courage on their part. I don't think the issue has ever been whether or not the gay person can do the job as well as those military people around him or her. It's a matter of whether they will have the support they need if an emergency situation comes up.

There are excellent in-depth cultural university courses on this very subject of respecting all people and their ethnicity, religion and/or sexual orientation. I think it should be mandatory for every non-gay and gay person in the military to take and pass at least the 101 level of this type of course.

davenmidtown Level 7 Commenter 4 months ago

I think what is important is that we were all BORN american and we should all have the right to defend our country regardless of sex or sexual orientation. Being a gay man... I can guarantee you that I do not need a straight man to defend me. My father taught all of his children how to handle guns. People can argue all they want. They can fight to take away my rights, they can find to deny me the same privileges they have but they can never take away the fact that I am American. If your version of Jesus Christ does not accept me, then fine.. because I know the version of Jesus Christ I believe accepts me just for who I am...further, this is an argument you can take up with god when you die.

jacqui2011 Level 7 Commenter 4 months ago

No one should be treated differently because they happen to be gay. I believe that it is how they are born, and so what. Everyone is equal and should be treated as such. This subject has caused so much bad feeling and unnecessary hatred for many years. You hit the nail on the head, a gay soldier can do a job as well as a straight soldier. Would someone who hates gay people stop a gay doctor from treating them or their kids? The problem doesn't lie with gay people, it's the people who can't accept them.

A few of my friends are gay and I don't treat them any differently. I know that they have put up with a lot of abusive behaviour from narrow-minded people in the past. No-one has the right to judge others because of their sexuality.

Great topic for a hub. I found it very true and very interesting. I believe that this article is something that everyone should read. Voted up and interesting.

Sunnie Day Level 8 Commenter 4 months ago

Daven I was reading your comment and just wanted to respond as a Christian. I have had many gay friends and worked with many gay people, and do love them as a person. The Jesus I know taught love first and formost. I was in the military years ago and knew people that were gay..it was so hard for them to say anything and dangerous. I am happy at least people do not have to hide anymore. There is alot to do and much to change within the laws but now that they have established an open policy, they are going to have to move forward with making it fair to all.

Daven you are right no one can take away that you are an American. When the chips are down and a soldier is protecting his buddy on the battle field I highly doubt they are going to stop and ask eachothers for their sexal preference.

I think the people they need to watch out for is the guys who are raping young women cadets during training.

Sunnie

alphagirl Level 5 Commenter 4 months ago

Why should being gay or not matter? Homophobics need to be educated. Having worked in creative fields, many of my co-workers were gay. Some of my best friends were gay of either sex.

My kids as asked me about gay and what it means. My daughter was age 6 at the time..Gay just means you are wired differently and your preferences for things may differ, but you are still human being. We had a neighbor who was a lesbian and her wife/ friend had two littles girls through invitro//Uh complicated for a 7 year old. Anyways, i also told me kids some people have two mom's for various reasons. What was more important was that the girls were cared for and loved. No such thing as a perfect family. What is perfect. We are human beings.

My kids are 11 and 14 and they understanding of differences in people. Fat, skinny, purple, green, asian, black, gay , queer...They do not discriminate. Kids are born color blind. It is the adults who teach and project their own fears onto them.

James A Watkins Level 8 Commenter 4 months ago

You ask: "Do we really believe that gay people can not perform their duties as a soldier?"

I have never heard anyone say that except for you.

I think we can all agree that, as you say, "people's sexual orientation has nothing to do with their job performance."

But I am sure you know full well that is not the question. The questions are: What is the military for? To defend our country or for social engineering? Why does anybody need to proclaim their sexual habits to be a soldier? If a soldier likes to have people poop in his mouth or have people pee on him or to lick buttholes, why would he have to tell everybody about it and why should we want him to? Why shouldn't he just keep it to himself?

You wrote: "People do not choose to be gay; God chose for them!"

That is blasphemy! God would never want a person to engage in behaviors—and that is what we are talking about—that He has declared an evil abomination.

You write: "Gay people generally are not in the habit of trying to get straight people to 'change teams'."

But that is not true.

How do people get enslaved by homosexual behaviors? The same way they get addicted to cigarettes, drugs or internet porn. If your first sexual experience is with someone of the same sex, and it is pleasurable, you want more of it. Repetition becomes habit, especially if your social group, society, and authority figures approve of it, rather than frown upon it. Feelings and impulses are not behaviors. To say they can't help themselves is merely to absolve people of responsibility for their conduct.

Two-thirds of homosexual men say that their first sexual experience was with an adult man or another boy. Boys who have been sexually abused by pedophiles are seven times more likely to identify themselves as homosexual when they are adults.

Those who wallow in homosexual behaviors yearn to initiate the innocent! To destroy the innocence of another person assuages the perpetrator's own guilt because innocence reminds him of his own corruption. Pedophiles use this same type of reasoning to justify their behavior in their own minds.

The rectal trauma induced by anal intercourse has long been known to cause all sorts of viral and bacterial infections. Gay men live shorter lives than straight men by twenty to thirty years. And they call this a healthy lifestyle?

46 percent of adult male homosexuals (and 22 percent of females) report they had been victims of homosexual molestation as children, compared to 7 percent of heterosexual men and 1 percent of women.

All people sin and those who believe there is such a thing as sin readily admit that. What they do not do is hold parades for their sins or publicly proclaim their favorite sin is actually good and demand vociferously that everybody else do so also—or else they "hate us"—another phony argument. Since when do we supposedly "hate" anybody we disagree with? You want to see hate? Look at the hate directed at those of the Christian faith by homosexual activists.

I believe people should be free to do whatever they want in their bedrooms. But don't tell us about it. The gay rights movement is about forcing all Americans to approve of their behavior—whether it is perverse or not.

The greatest obstacle to a personal relationship with God is habitual sinful behavior. If we truly love other people, as in 'Love your Neighbor,' we should never approve of these behaviors.

tammyswallow Level 8 Commenter 4 months ago

JS,

You are very brave for writing this hub, but it is a conversation that needs to be had.

I don't think a person's sexuality has any bearing on whether or not they are appropriate for any job, military or not. I have a high regard for all American Soliders who put their lives on the line for our freedoms regardless of his or her sexual orientation.

There is enough hate and homophobia in this world. It isn't in me to hate someone because of their sexual orientation. That is between God and the individual. I don't think any of us were placed on this planet to serve as the judge and jury for our peers. You wrote an important hub here JS.

alocsin Level 8 Commenter 4 months ago

As a gay man, I can assure you that I did not learn to be gay. If anything, everybody taught me to be straight and I lived that lie for many years. I was absolutely miserable until I accepted that I was gay.

Now, I'm fabulous!

I'm also convinced that using the Bible as a tool of hate is cultural and not religious. For example, in the Philippines, which is more fundamentally Christian than the U.S., I'd never heard of anyone using the Good Book against gay people. It was quite a shock to discover that people in this country did that regularly.

As for a person's first sexual experience determining their orientation, that is neither supported by scientific evidence nor social reality.

People know their orientation long before they have their first sexual experience. Otherwise, teens would be experimenting with both sexes until they figured out which one they preferred, which is clearly not the case.

Many straight folks have their first sexual experiences playing with kids of the same sex. That didn't turn them gay.

Many gay people get married and only have heterosexual sex for all their lives. Until they accept who they are.

And how many straight woman had a bad first time with the opposite sex? That suddenly didn't turn them gay.

If you're going to state "facts" about homosexuality, have some evidence to back it up, instead of your own prejudices. For my evidence, check the websites of the American Medical Association or the American Psychiatric Association.

Or better yet, if you want to know what being gay is like, talk to a gay person.

AudreyHowitt Level 7 Commenter 4 months ago

I am still waiting to see a move from tolerance to inclusion--great hub!

Haunty Level 5 Commenter 4 months ago

As alocsin said, gay people don't choose to be gay, but many of them choose to be part of the military and serve the country and protect the lifestyle of the Americans. It was so wrong of the military to deny them the freedom of this choice due to something they have no control over. Glad to hear times are changing. Nice hub, JSMatthew.

alocsin Level 8 Commenter 4 months ago

Hey, JS, how is this hub doing impression-wise? I'm just curious. Feel free to respond to me privately with that answer.

alocsin Level 8 Commenter 4 months ago

I'm sorry, I meant "Page Views." What kind of Page Views are you getting for this hub -- is it a lot more than normal.

For page impressions, you need to set up your page with Google Analytics. Here's a nice overview:

http://edweirdo.hubpages.com/hub/How-To-Track-Your

Pay particular attention with step 3, because that gives you the actual Page Views and clicks for each hub. But you need to set up each hub the minute you finish it. (The page views you get from My Account shows your visits as well. The ones from Adsense are more accurate because it only shows visits by others.)

Feel free to PM me if you have additional questions. It can be complicated at first.

alocsin Level 8 Commenter 4 months ago

I would say 22 views a day is a good hub, at least for me. Congrats.

RealHousewife Level 8 Commenter 3 months ago

J.S. - I don't care what or who a person is having sex with - if they want to protect me and save my live - I LOVE them! I do not understand why people feel they need to disclose their orientation for a job - when I have been interviewed for jobs - I never had to say "hi I am Kelly and I am a heterosexual female...."

Voted up and everything.

Vincent Moore Level 7 Commenter 3 months ago

I agree with Deborah, ones sexual orientation has absolutely nothing NADA to do with job performance in any capacity. I to have gay friends and they are professionals in their careers. It's the small minded people in our world who like to place labels on people. Very sad indeed.

debbie roberts Level 6 Commenter 3 months ago

What makes a decent person - a soldier or sailor or teacher or ..... is who they are and not what their sexuality is. If as soldiers they are willing to die for their country then they are no different than heterosexual soldiers and shouldn't be treated any differently surely?

I'm actually surprised that in todays day and age people are judged by their sexual preferences.

Thank you for making me aware of this and thank you for sharing.

Sooner28 Level 6 Commenter 3 months ago

@J.S. Matthew,

Great hub. I'm still amazed that very few of the Republicans in Congress at the time actually supported ending DADT; it seems as though the current GOP is no place for tolerance! Voted up.